Let's Talk About It With OhioGuidestone
There are things we all think, but don’t always say out loud. In Let’s Talk About It, the experts at OhioGuidestone unpack the real conversations happening at every stage of life. From early childhood to adulthood, we explore what behavior is really telling us, and when it might be time to reach out for support.
Let's Talk About It With OhioGuidestone
Building Emotional Foundations
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Young children may not have the words to say, "I'm struggling," but they still communicate stress, fear, overwhelm, and emotional dysregulation through their behavior. In early childhood, children are learning how to handle stress, feel safe, and express emotions they don't yet have words for.
In Season 2, Episode 2 of Let's Talk About It With OhioGuidestone, Kaylin Schaefer, MSW, LISW-S, Youth Program Director at OhioGuidestone, discusses with Host Derek Rader, how the emotional foundations built in childhood can support lifelong resilience, why behavior is often a form of communication, and how recognizing the signs early, including when self-harm may become a way of expressing emotional pain, can help create opportunities for connection, support, and prevention... so, let's talk about it.
There are things we all think, but don't always say out loud.
Is this normal?
Why am I feeling so overwhelmed?
Shouldn't I be able to handle this?
If you've ever wondered, "Am I the only one feeling this way?" You're not, let's talk about it.
OhioGuidestone's Promise Run is back! Join us at Wallace Lake in Berea on Saturday, September 22nd.
Questions about our podcast? Email podcast@ohioguidestone.org to get in touch with us. To learn more about OhioGuidestone, visit ohioguidestone.org.
Before we begin, we'd like to take a moment to share a content advisory. This episode contains conversations about suicide, mental health, and emotional well-being. Some listeners may find the topics difficult or triggering. We encourage you to prioritize your well-being and seek support from someone you trust, a mental health professional or crisis resource. For listeners in the United States, the Suicide in Crisis Lifeline is available by calling or texting 988. If this topic feels overwhelming, feel free to pause or skip the episode. Resilience in kids starts when they're playing with building blocks. How so? Let's talk about it. I'm Derek Rader, and this is the Let's Talk About It podcast. I'm here today with Kaelin Schaefer, Director of Community Counseling at Ohio Guidestone. Kaelin, thank you so much for being here today.
SPEAKER_01Thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_00So today we're going to talk about building emotional language early and recognizing distress in young children. When people think about suicide prevention, they probably don't think about early childhood. Why should they?
SPEAKER_01Early childhood is when so much of the brain develops. And that's when children are learning through repetition and consistency about the world around them. And that's when it's a great time to start building a foundation for how to talk about feelings, when to talk about feelings, and what it feels like in your body to have those feelings.
SPEAKER_00At what age do children start developing emotional tools that help them handle pain, frustration, fear, or even shame later in life?
SPEAKER_01I think it's earlier than people think. Even as an infant, they are scanning the environment, they're looking at their caregiver's face, they are checking in and really observant around what's happening around them and who is responding when they are crying, when they have a need that needs to be met. And that already sort of sets the stage for who can I trust? Who's going to help me? And um what gets responded to and what doesn't.
SPEAKER_00What does emotional distress look like in a very young child who doesn't have the words for it yet?
SPEAKER_01It can look like all kinds of things. I've been there. It can look like tantrums or screaming, aggression, um, hitting others, hitting themselves. It could look like um the opposite of that, being withdrawn and um just not playing the things that they usually like to play, or maybe you're seeing an impact in sleeping or eating, or um just kind of like a difference in a pattern that you're usually seeing.
SPEAKER_00So how do young kids show us that they're overwhelmed?
SPEAKER_01They show us in all kinds of ways. Yeah. Um, and it's kind of up to the grown-ups around them to figure out what they're showing us and tying it back to translation of what does this mean? Um, sometimes I like to tell myself that my kids are an alien from another planet. Um, and they're totally new, right? They're totally new. And that helps me when I'm thinking about um just I use my adult brain to think about situations. And when I think about them as people who are new, they need skills built in all kinds of areas and they don't know the words to use, they don't know when to use them, and that's why you're seeing it show up in their bodies and they're acting it out.
SPEAKER_00Sure. You know, it's so unbelievably challenging. You know, as a parent myself, I remember especially when my twins were very young. You know, you can read all the books and you can talk to other parents, but you don't always know um when a child might be trying to communicate pain. What do adults often dismiss as behavior that may actually be a child trying to communicate that to them?
SPEAKER_01I think it's it's hard, right? Because parents, especially now, so I think even more than ever are so busy, are trying to like get out the door, get to the next thing. There's a lot of things people are juggling right now in terms of if they're working, if they're not working, if they're doing childcare, if they have kids in school. Um, there's so many different things happening. And so I think it's easy to miss those opportunities or to think of it in terms of um, you're kind of just delaying the things that we have to do next. And so it feels like maybe I'm taking it personally, like you're just you're doing this on purpose, or um, you're maybe it feels like a manipulation of some kind. But um, kids are really all about cause and effect. Number one, they want to see what happens, right? Who's gonna respond and what that's gonna look like when they do something. And they um when they are upset and in distress, I think it's easy just to say, oh, you're fine, knock it off. Um, instead of really trying to get to the root of what happened. I can see that your face looks mad, your body looks frustrated, your fists are clenched, and you are you look like you're out of control. Help me understand what's going on for you.
SPEAKER_00I love that. And it really goes into my next question, which is how do we help parents move from what's wrong with my child, to what is my child trying to tell me?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think it's hard. Yes, it's hard. Um, especially if you're out in a public place, right? It's embarrassing. Um, and as a parent, you sort of get activated too when that happens. So thinking about how to um keep yourself calm, to keep your child calm.
SPEAKER_00You know, I remember a time when my son and I were at a video game store and he was about three or four, and there was a game he wanted. And I said, No, no, we can't get that. And he proceeded to knock all the games on the shelf down. I'm I'm shame-based. So I immediately was so overwhelmed and embarrassed. And I remember, you know, putting him in the car and he was crying, he was very upset, and just thinking in my head, oh my gosh, what's what's wrong with my what's wrong with my son? Instead of what is he trying to tell me? Which, you know, when I later looked back and reflected, you know, he was tired. He had been running all day long. And that's what he really, it wasn't about the game, right? It was about that. So that's definitely something that I still think about to this day.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's very rarely about you and about what's going on with the situation. And I think removing yourself from that is helpful and figuring out what's going on with the kids.
SPEAKER_00It is. I think parents need to sometimes, even in the even in the heat of a tantrum or a meltdown, just pause, look at the situation. It's not about you. Easier said than done, right? I'm far removed from those days. My son is now 16, and we have all kinds of other different, unique challenges that we didn't have then. Um what role does an attachment play in a child's ability to feel safe?
SPEAKER_01Huge. I mean, that's the whole thing, right? Is if you don't feel as if you are secure and have a secure base, then and you don't feel as if anyone around you has the tools to keep you safe, um, then you sort of try to control the environment by upping the annie or um just sort of putting yourself out there and being so out of control to test the waters of who's gonna step in, who's gonna help me, and who is gonna keep me safe? What's the limit? Um, so that's why attachment is so important. It really helps the child feel as if they can go to someone when they need them. And also the parent needs to be attuned with the child in terms of recognizing when they are in distress and being with them to regulate. I think a lot of parents, myself included, have said, you know, you need to calm down, like go over there and calm down. And I think that's an easy trap to get into because they don't know how, or they are in a state where they just can't. Um, so and we're mad too. So we want them to be removed from us. And then they increase their behavior because they're actually looking for connection. And it's sort of this push-pull of like, the more I do this, the more you push me away, even though I'm trying to show you that I need you more. Um, and so that's when the parent has to sort of do the opposite and come together with the child to help them regulate and calm down and find that secure base of like lending them their calm.
SPEAKER_00I love that. So, you know, talking about meltdowns, I mean, when a child is melting down or just completely dysregulated, we I'm sure we've all been there. What should the adult do first?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's a great question. So I get again, I think parents jump to trying to talk to them. Um, and that's such a front part of your brain kind of process. And when kids are in distress, they're not using their problem-solving part of their brain, they're using their survival part of their brain. Um, and and when that happens, they can't hear you. They're not processing the words that you're saying. So sitting next to them, breathing, being quiet, um, even and at some point, even labeling what's happening of I see that you're mad, I see that you're frustrated, to just give them, help give them the language. The more that that is repeated, the hope is that in the future they'll be able to use that language too, before it happens. So, really helping the situation de-escalate is the first step before even launching into now, let's solve this problem. Now let's figure out what's going on.
SPEAKER_00Right. And and I talked a little bit about this earlier, but I remember, you know, the meltdowns, and there wasn't that many. But when they happen, they're almost always in a public place with someone you haven't seen since high school and you're embarrassed. Yes. You know, shame, I guess, is is where I'm going with this. But uh a lot of parents they feel guilty when their child struggles. How can you help caregivers stay engaged without drowning in shame?
SPEAKER_01I think that normalizing that this is something that happens to every parent ever. Um, finding having parents find their community of other parents who are going through similar situations. When I see a parent in distress out in the grocery store, I kind of try and make eye contact and give them a nod of like, you're f like you're doing you're okay. Yeah. We've all been there. Um, because I think it's easy to judge when you're on the other side of things, but when you're in it, just remembering what it's like to have young children and how helpless that feels. And like you said, guilty and you feel shame, and it sort of feels like this is gonna last forever. And the other thing to remember too is I think this is a phase. Everything is kind of a phase in those age ranges, which um also the good things are a phase. It's kind of like this roller coaster of high highs and low lows, and trying to sort of figure out where is the medium here. Um, it's just how those first years go.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Well, two things there. I I love that you said, you know, helping that other parent out because I remember you know, being at a grocery store and my twins were like three, and I think my oldest was maybe five or six, and it was not going well. I was very overwhelmed. It was almost like a sitcom, except for it was my real life and not funny. There was no laugh track. And there was another mom who was in front of me and turned around and she goes, You've got this, dad. Full disclosure, I welled up.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Because I was just, it was the nicest thing ever. And she's like, We've all been there. And then my oldest at the time, who was again five or six, he looked up at me, he put his hand on me, he goes, You've got this, dad. And again, another tear came down the other end because it was just, you know, and he's he was always that way. And I guess with young children, what does resilience look like in a young child?
SPEAKER_01Mm-hmm. I mean, resilience is just the ability to try that again. Yes. To have another opportunity and to be able to know, I didn't get it right the first time, but I'm not gonna give up. So I'm gonna try it again. And I think that's important to remember too, as a parent of because parents make mistakes too. And so modeling that I yelled at you and I felt like my body was out of control. And I'm so sorry. I wish I had handled that differently next time. I am going to take a deep breath. I'm going to do something different. And so showing your child that you can make a mistake, be accountable for it, and then apologize to them. Yeah, I think is such an important moment for them to see because that's what we want for them.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. And I always think that self-awareness and accountability are so important. Yeah. Right. And actions speak louder than words, and you have to lead by example, you know, and I've had to learn that the hard way at times. Um, are there small everyday things that parents can do to build emotional strength over time?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, definitely. So I always recommend to parents starting with just narrating your own feelings throughout the day and you and your child's feelings. So labeling them. Um, even when I think people usually go to, I'm so mad, um, but giving more in terms of like, I'm frustrated, I feel afraid, I'm worried, I feel anxious about this, I'm happy. This is wonderful. I'm excited. So just like giving more of those words, more of that language all the time, talking about what you're doing and how you're feeling, and talking about their feelings. And I mean, the kids are just gonna continue to, they'll get it wrong and they'll figure it out because again, they're aliens from another planet. They're new here. They don't they don't know um what the norms are, they don't know what to say and what words to connect to what's happening in their bodies. And I remember my um my son, when he was mad, he was really little, he said, You're making me adorable when he was getting mad at me, um, which was so cute because I knew he was trying to describe how he was feeling. And so then I was able to jump in and say, Your body and your voice are actually telling me that you're frustrated, you're mad. Um, and I think that just being able to talk about those things is a great first step. And then you can also talk about what you're doing about those things. I'm feeling really mad, mom's feeling really mad, I need to take a minute to myself, I need to take my own deep breaths and sort of modeling for them what that looks like.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. How do we talk to young children about hard feelings without scaring them?
SPEAKER_01I think sometimes we think they're gonna be scared about hard feelings and they're they're already feeling it. So sometimes I think we parents either shy away from talking about those things in a direct way. And if they're not saying it out loud, then sort of sends the message that this is too hard and we don't say this out loud. And so being the first one to say, you know, you might be feeling so mad that you don't have control over your body and you're worried about what you're gonna do next um is something that the message has been sent early. Like, we don't talk about that, we shut that down. And so being open early on and um being able to think about it in terms of how old your child is and what how to talk to them about each um different things that come up in life, I think is really important too, because then later on, as they get older and things mean different things are different, um, then they do feel like they can come to you and talk about more serious things. And I think like the way that you respond when children do bring up scary things is really important also.
SPEAKER_00Well, it sounds like you know, the way that you respond to that at a very young age helps them build that solid foundation and really create a blueprint for for them as they they juggle the obstacles and moving parts and pieces of life. Yes. So that's why that's just so important. Yes. What would you say to a parent who's worried they may have already missed too much or made too many mistakes?
SPEAKER_01It's never too late. Right. There's always time to repair, there's always time to start new. That's that resilience piece that you were talking about. That we're just gonna try again. And kids' brains are changing so much that they are able to look at the new pattern that you're building with them and look at how you're doing things differently. And that impacts them in a positive way too.
SPEAKER_00So, since the focus this season is self-harm and prevention, many people may not think about this in early the early childhood phase of life. Why should we be aware of feelings being expressed through emotion or self-harm in young children and what are they trying to tell us?
SPEAKER_01So sometimes we see self-harm in this population when there's a sensory need. So I have we've had clients where, um, and I've seen children who when they're really upset and they don't have the words to use, they might bite themselves or they might um bang their head on something. And I think it's really important for parents to just know that they're not the only ones who have been through that. And being able to look at the frequency, the duration, the intensity. Is this a one-time thing? Is this a long-term thing? And how can I get my child help if they need it? And what might what might help look like for them? Is it because they have a sensory need and they need to be referred through a pediatrician to an occupational therapist? Or is it because they have a hard time with their language and they need help with building what can I say when I'm mad? Or what can I do with this energy and figuring out how to redirect that into a different way?
SPEAKER_00I really like what you said there, Kaylin, because I think sometimes parents, well, one, we want to try to figure it out all on our own, but that can be very isolating. Yeah. And suddenly you're on this island, where do they start? Where do they who do they start with first? Their pediatrician? Where would you recommend they go?
SPEAKER_01Pediatrician is great, or early intervention with bright beginnings, they're fantastic. Um, Ohio Guidestone, I've heard, is pretty great. I've heard that too. Helpful.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, I think that outsourcing things that you don't, if you're not an expert in, is sort of you're like the air traffic controller for what's happening in your house. And no one can know everything about the right thing to do. So figuring out who those professionals are and where to seek guidance around different things because there's a million parenting books, there's a million parenting podcasts, and I think it can be overwhelming of where do I start? So I think it's really helpful to find a professional to talk to and to get some early evaluations done and things like that. And I think also when kids are super mad, sometimes they say scary things that they don't know what that scary thing even means. So um being able to calmly talk with your child also about wow, you must have been so mad to say that. Let's talk about that. What did you mean by that? Being meeting these concerns with curiosity, especially when you're very young, um is probably the most helpful thing.
SPEAKER_00So as we close out, I have one more question for you. How does having this foundation prepare them for later in life to open conversations when they do feel hopeless and stressed?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so I think at least I know with my own kids, I am very intentional about saying there's nothing that you could tell me that would be too scary or too big for me to help you handle this. Like we're in this together. Um, and setting that early helps, I think, then later on when there are larger problems. It's like little kids' little problems, big kids' big problems. They sort of get larger as they grow. Um, and so setting the stage now for I'm a safe space to put these feelings, and you're not going to be in trouble for the feelings that you have, and you're not gonna be punished or shamed or guilted around these feelings is all you're putting in the work. You're planting the seeds now for later. I know um usually in the car is a great place to talk to kids about things. For some reason, kids just that they don't feel the pressure, they're behind you. And um, also at bedtime is a great place where their brains sort of just want to like give you all the information that happened during the day. Um, with my son, we call it like tea time. I'm like, give me all the tea, what happened at camp, tell me all the things. And he's telling me about his peers, but he's also testing me and seeing what my reaction will be when he tells me the things that his peers are doing and saying. And that helps build those connections of, oh, if that's your response for them, then maybe I can feel safe when I'm having those feelings or when something like that happens for me.
SPEAKER_00That's great. Well, I want to thank you again for being here today, Kaylin. That's been a great conversation, and I hope this helps out some parents that are listening.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, me too. Thank you.
SPEAKER_00You're welcome. I'm Derek Rader, and this is the Let's Talk About It podcast. Thanks again. Have a great day because you deserve it. If you or someone you care about is struggling, call or text 988 to connect with a trained crisis professional at any time, day or night. For immediate, life threatening emergencies, call 911. Talking about mental health can save lives, and every conversation matters.
