When They're Little

Tantrums, big feelings, and sleepless nights are all often brushed off as "just part of being little." But what if these early moments are actually some of the most important for a child's mental health?

In episode two of Let's Talk About It With OhioGuidestone, Host Derek Rader sits down with Kristina Ryan, MSW, LISW-S, Clinical Supervisor at OhioGuidestone, to explore why ages zero to six play a critical role in emotional development. In their conversation, Derek and Kristina unpack how young children learn to regulate emotions, respond to stress, and build a sense of safety, and why early support can make a lifelong difference. 

Their conversation sheds light on what's really happening beneath the surface of early childhood behaviors and offers insight for anyone who cares for or works with young children. So listen along, and let's talk about it!

There are things we all think, but don't always say out loud.
Is this normal?
Why am I feeling so overwhelmed?
Shouldn't I be able to handle this?
If you've ever wondered, "Am I the only one feeling this way?" You're not, let's talk about it.

Questions about our podcast? Email podcast@ohioguidestone.org to get in touch with us. To learn more about OhioGuidestone, visit ohioguidestone.org. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Tantrums are big feelings that children are working through. So let's talk about it. So I'm thinking back to when my twins were toddlers and they were both sleep deprived, and one was crying, and the other had spilled Pabrika all over the floor, and then the dog was in it, and there was just a lot of chaos. And on top of that, my wife and I were also sleep deprived. When a parent's overwhelmed and thinking, why is this so hard? What's really going on in that moment?

SPEAKER_00 0:37

It sucks.

SPEAKER_01 0:39

Because it is that hard. Yes. Right. Yeah. Right. Why does small kids' emotions feel so big and unpredictable?

SPEAKER_00 0:48

Because they are. So when you're that small, you only have so much control over so many things in your life. Um, and when I think about it realistically, the things that small people can control are what goes in their body, what comes out of their body, and how they respond to situations. And also sleep. So when they feel out of control, they don't have the skill set to be able to say, you know, I am just really tired because I didn't get good sleep last night and my brother kept me up, and the dog's being loud, and also I need to go potty, and also I don't like that sound you're making right now. They just scream because they don't have the developmental capabilities to be able to verbalize that and say it.

SPEAKER_01 1:30

So, what's the difference between a tough phase and something that needs attention?

SPEAKER_00 1:36

I would say it can depend on a couple of things. So throughout early childhood, there are several periods of time where it can be really developmentally normal for kids to have tantrums a lot of the time, because that is how they are learning to communicate. That's how they're learning to express themselves. Um, that's how they're learning how to get their needs met. And I think what would push it over the edge into being something that is like needing help or needing more support would be when your usual strategies that help your little one aren't working, or it's going on beyond periods of time where they're unable to calm down, even with adult help.

SPEAKER_01 2:14

Okay. You know, I remember again when when my little ones were um in those formative years, and I was watching a uh unnamed, unnamed Cleveland sports team, and I used uh some colorful language, which my toddler then picked up and also used. That's a fun time. It was. That was my fault, and I own it. What's something though that parents blame themselves for that actually isn't their fault?

SPEAKER_00 2:40

That's a good question. Um, that's a tough one. I would say actually, a lot of the times kids having sleep problems. Um, I have heard a lot of people talk about like, you gotta let kids cry it out, or you're not giving them a good enough routine, or you need to try melatonin, or you need to talk to the pediatrician, or whatever it is. And their little one is still having sleep struggles. And I think that it can bring a lot of guilt and shame for parents, like they didn't try the right thing, or they're not doing it, or maybe they're doing absolutely everything somebody is recommending to them and their child is still not sleeping. When the reality is it's developmentally normal for most people to wake up at night. Like I am a fully grown adult and I don't sleep all the way through the night, and you probably don't either. We all, I think the average is people wake up at least once or twice a night, even if it's just to roll over. So it's biologically normal for kids to do that.

SPEAKER_01 3:36

Why does childhood feel so isolating for so many parents?

SPEAKER_00 3:40

Because no one wants to talk about how hard it is. I think there's a lot of guilt and shame when you have a child who's having a hard time. Because I know we've all been in grocery stores and seen little kids throwing fits over something. And I think the knee-jerk reaction is, ooh, that person has their hands full, or making a judgment or a fear that you're going to be perceived as a bad parent. And people just tend to hold it in because of that.

SPEAKER_01 4:09

You talked a little bit about as the kids are growing, you know, they're learning those pro-social skills and they're learning even language, right? When they're younger. What are some quiet signs a child who's struggling emotionally that that they'll show that aren't obvious?

SPEAKER_00 4:27

They can be really withdrawn. Um, or they might just be really quiet. I think, you know, it's it's really, really easy to notice the kid who's having the biggest feelings in the room, or a kid who what we would be called would like an externalizer. They're screaming, they're yelling, they're throwing things, maybe they're hitting people, biting, you name it, they're having real big feelings and real big actions. And there are kids who are internalizers and they're quiet and they sit by themselves and they don't necessarily scream, I need help or I need support. Um, but they're so withdrawn that they're often kind of like lost in the shuffle because they're not the biggest behavior in the room.

SPEAKER_01 5:09

One thing that we don't talk about a lot is the parents are also learning during these years. And what's one thing that parents do that accidentally makes things harder?

SPEAKER_00 5:21

Ooh, I see this all of the time and I am even guilty of it myself. Um, threatening things that you're not gonna follow through with. So there is nothing wrong with setting an expectation for your child and then giving them a consequence if that doesn't follow through. So, for example, if you don't sit down to eat your food, I'm gonna have to put your plate in the sink for a little bit because I can't have you walking around or put it on the table or whatever. And then the child keeps doing the thing that you want them to not do, and then you don't follow through as the parent. So you don't actually put it away. You just say, hey, don't do that again. Or um making a threat that's like too big to actually uphold that you're gonna give a kid as a consequence. So if you don't stop that, I'm never gonna let you watch TV again. Like, that's not true. You are gonna let them watch TV again. So do what you say and say what you mean. Um, and oftentimes that makes it worse because kids then kind of perceive it as being really unpredictable and they don't know which, like, what response am I gonna get today? Am I gonna be able to keep doing what I want to do, or am I gonna get into an argument with my parent and keep pushing boundaries because I'm four and I don't know any better.

SPEAKER_01 6:31

Right, right. So, with that, how much of a child's emotional world is shaped in those early years? All of it.

SPEAKER_00 6:39

That sounds really scary. Um, and that's not meant to like spook you or spook people to think if you did something wrong or your kids having a hard time that they can't learn and grow because they can. And kids particularly are very resilient. Um, but that's the formative years. That's when kids are learning how to express themselves and how to form relationships. And that's when they're developing all of those relational maps that carry them through adulthood and teach their body and teach their brain how to have healthy relationships and healthy emotional expression too.

SPEAKER_01 7:13

So for a parent that feels like they're struggling in those early years, what does support actually look like for them when they feel like they're failing?

SPEAKER_00 7:22

First thing you do is talk about it. And also parents who are bad parents, and I don't say that lightly because I think everybody, even people who are making not awesome choices for their kids, have space to be able to learn and grow and do better. Um, because when you know better, you do better. But people who are struggling and are worried like, am I a bad parent? Am I doing the right things? Like, I'm here to tell you that bad parents don't have those worries. So, step number one is really making peace with the fact that that's okay. And then talking about it. Right. Um, you can talk to your pediatrician, you can utilize an early intervention service like Bright Beginnings, which is a wonderful service for kids who are uh three and under. Um, so even if you're not sure, like, hey, is this normal? You can ask for a referral from your pediatrician for that. And then you can have a team of early intervention specialists screen your kid and tell you. And if it's not, great, they're gonna be there to provide support. And if it is normal, awesome. Let's keep figuring out what we can do to help you. Because clearly, parent, you're feeling overwhelmed, and support can also look like you getting help for your own self too.

SPEAKER_01 8:32

Have you ever worked with a parent who thought they were failing, but actually wasn't at all? And what did you see?

SPEAKER_00 8:38

Almost all of the parents that I worked with have felt like that at one point or another. Um, myself included as a parent and also an early childhood therapist, I worry about those things too. And I don't think there's ever been a time that we haven't been able to work through that and really um get the kid over where they needed to go and get the parent the support they needed for themselves individually too.

SPEAKER_01 9:03

So, and I think you may have already answered this question, but for those parents out there, because it is a really challenging time, right? There's there's thousands of books and podcasts where you can learn about, you know, parenting toddlers, um, but it's still really, really hard. Um, if a parent feels like they're getting it wrong, what would you want them to hear?

SPEAKER_00 9:24

Everyone at one point or another um really grapples with wanting to yeet their kid out a window. Being a parent is hard. Small children are really difficult, and it's okay to be overwhelmed, is what I would want everyone to know.

SPEAKER_01 9:40

And I remember in my house, some of the most challenging transitions like bedtime, meals, or even leaving the house would trigger such big reactions. Why is that?

SPEAKER_00 9:53

Because again, little kids, they don't have a lot that they can control. And, you know, sometimes it could be they just feel like it. Most of the time, it's because they were watching something they really enjoyed, or they weren't done coloring yet, or maybe they don't like the way socks feel and they don't want to put on their shoes. And maybe they're just exerting themselves and learning how to use their voice and just don't want to do that right now. So you're in a grown-up, people tell you to do things you don't want to do all the time. And as a grown-up, we know, okay, if I scream and yell or like punch somebody, I'm gonna go to jail. And that's not great, right? We don't want to do that. Kids don't have the executive functioning to be able to like put that pause on it. So they just go.

SPEAKER_01 10:40

So, how much of a child's behavior is communication versus acting out?

SPEAKER_00 10:45

I think they kind of work together a lot of the times. Um, I think where it crosses the line, and I don't necessarily even love the phrase acting out, because I I think that has a really yucky connotation. And sometimes behaviors are attention seeking, and that does happen. Um, but how I try to reframe that for people or parents or teachers or whomever I was working with is that, you know, they're telling you they need something. So, yes, it's attention seeking, but they're not trying to manipulate you into giving you what they want. They don't know what's wrong in their body, and that's how it's being expressed.

SPEAKER_01 11:25

So one area we found that we had success was when we were consistent, consistent with boundaries, um, consistent with schedules. Um, what role does consistency play in a child's emotional stability?

SPEAKER_00 11:43

It plays a lot. Consistency is really important. And that's not saying that you can't make a mistake as a parent or you can't change things. You definitely can and you definitely should, because that's an important lesson for kids to learn too. But you know, when kids are in those formative years and they're trying to kind of figure out the world, they're trying to figure out what works for them, how to get the supports they need, um, what's too big of a feeling to express versus what's okay to do, you being a parent and giving them that consistent response helps them develop that relational map. So then they're gonna know, okay, I can do something bad or I can do something wrong or something bad's gonna happen, and my safe person isn't gonna go. And it helps them learn that, and then they can later carry that on, like later in life. And that's what that importance of co-regulation is, which is being together and doing it with each other. Um, and a lot of consistency can be done in that way, and it builds just a really healthy relational map for kids later in life.

SPEAKER_01 12:47

I love that. Another area that I don't think is talked about enough is public meltdowns. Oh, yeah. I remember many a times, whether we were at the story time, at the library, or at the mall, and there would be a meltdown. How what would you tell a parent to I guess how do you handle public meltdowns without feeling embarrassed or judged?

SPEAKER_00 13:15

That's another good question. I don't know that there's like a perfect recipe for that. Um, if there's a parent who is struggling with that, you are not the first one and you are not the last one. Everyone's kid has lost their mind in public at some point in time. And I really think the first thing you have to do is regulate yourself as the grown-up. Because if you're dysregulated and you're angry and you're flustered and you're frustrated, that's how you're gonna appear to your kid who is also doing those things, and you guys are just gonna escalate each other. Um, so sometimes you have to take a step back for a minute. And I'm a huge fan of pick your battles. So is what they're doing dangerous? Is what they're doing inconvenient for you? I think you have to kind of weigh those things. Obviously, if there's a safety concern, sometimes you just gotta go swoop your kid up and hold them football style and walk out of the store and try again later. But if it's not, I think it's a good learning opportunity for kids too to learn, like, okay, you know what? You're you can be mad, you can't do this. And sometimes you just gotta let them roll on the ground a little bit because they're not hurting anybody and they're not hurting themselves in the process.

SPEAKER_01 14:23

Well, I I definitely can be very shame-based and I start looking around and I think, what is everyone thinking here? What's something parents compare themselves on that they shouldn't?

SPEAKER_00 14:34

Ooh, lots of different things. Um, I have a delightfully verbal daughter who um has a lot of feelings and from a freakishly young age has done a phenomenal job of telling everybody in the room about her feelings. And um, I have lots of friends who are like, well, my kid can't talk about her feelings like that. My kid just freaks out, why aren't they doing that yet? Is something wrong? And at the reality, it's like, no, I just had a kid who could talk really young and had an early childhood therapist as a mom and probably did not do her justice in her emotional education because she's got too much for her tiny little body. Um, but that's just one example. Parents can compare about absolutely everything, whether it's uh a kid sitting still for long enough time, my kid is walking now, your kid isn't walking now, oh, your kid sleeps through the night, mine doesn't. It's a really natural thing to do as a parent.

SPEAKER_01 15:31

Things change so fast. So, you know, when I was growing up, we never had iPads or anything. Yeah. Um, you know, my son grew up with just a basic Kindle that he could use. Kids today can play on iPad. There's probably AI programs that they can uh utilize. Uh how does screen time impact the emotional development at such a young age?

SPEAKER_00 15:53

This is probably gonna be a controversial thing to say because I don't necessarily always agree with everybody about screen time. Um I think that there are circumstances where you have to limit it because we are seeing that some kiddos, um, like you said earlier, can't transition through things well. So if they're locked into screen time and they're like really like laser focused on what they're doing, a lot of their different senses are being stimulated in that moment. So their sound, so their auditory senses are being stimulated, they can see it's really engaging, there's a lot of visual aspects to it too. So they get like locked in on it, and then you take it away. And then sometimes kids can have meltdowns over that, and that can be hard. Um, in those circumstances, if you're noticing your child is, you know, too focused on it, only wants to do screen time, isn't able to transition into other activities, um, having trouble sleeping. Those are some times that we want to put some limitations and parameters around screen time. And obviously, when kids are like really small, we want to do that too. We don't want like a one-year-old on an iPad all day. I'm talking more, more probably like three, four, five, six-year-olds. And um, there's other times though, where kids can watch a TV show or play a game on their tablet and then throw it down and go play, and it's not a problem. And it can look really different for different kids, even within the same family. Like I know for my son, he doesn't care. He'll just put his tablet down and go and do what he wants to do. But for my daughter, sometimes she does get too focused on it. So I have to put some more limitations on her stuff than I do with his. And I can't just let her have unlimited access, or I'll catch her up in the middle of the night on her tablet at three o'clock in the morning playing with her little games. So it really is dependent on the kid.

SPEAKER_01 17:40

And I think too, sometimes with technology, it's just so convenient, right? To throw on a show on the on streaming or hand them a tablet. Um, but how can parents take care of themselves without feeling guilty?

SPEAKER_00 17:53

Everything in moderation.

unknown 17:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 17:56

I uh I know I get ready every morning and my kids are hanging out watching TV because my husband goes to work super early in the morning. And, you know, we don't have another choice. That's what works. It gets them focused to eat their breakfast. They watch a little like half a movie, then we all get ready and we get out the door and everything's okay. And I think that also teaches kids that healthy relationship with screen times, too. Um, but at the end of the day, nobody's the perfect parent, and you have to do what works best for you and your family. So it really is pick your battles and everything in moderation in my book.

SPEAKER_01 18:29

What does progress look like in early childhood mental health?

SPEAKER_00 18:34

That's a broad question. Um, it can depend. So I think about a lot of the work I did in daycare centers, and sometimes progress can be as small as my one little friend I had who just he really liked bad words and yelling them very loudly at you when he was mad, like calling you not so great names. Mind you, he was like maybe two or three. So it's kind of funny, but also like, maybe let's not call our teacher cuss words. Um, and one day he got really, really mad and he called his teacher stupid instead of saying an explicit for him, that was progress because he made a safer choice in his words. And that's a silly example, but it's true. But also sometimes progress can look like um tantrums not happening as often, less of a time frame that they're having the tantrum, being willing to accept growing up help and support to calm down, um, being able to use their words to say, I need something or I don't like something, or even I'm feeling overwhelmed. Um, sometimes it's using coping skills, but often that still does need to be done with somebody because co-regulation is key in those early childhood years. But progress is going to be unique to what that individual's concern is. Um, but it can be super small or super big.

SPEAKER_01 19:53

As we close things out, I'm thinking about the parents listening now, some of which might have young ones at home and they're feeling overwhelmed, they're feeling exhausted, um, and like they're getting it wrong. I know I've been there. What would you want them to hear?

SPEAKER_00 20:09

What I would want them to hear is that you are not alone and not to be cliche, but this too shall pass, but realistically it will. So it's only gonna be this hard for as long as it is. And as kids grow, things will shift. You're not the only person who has felt the way that you are feeling. And it is okay sometimes to really not like your kid. That is not saying we don't love our kids. That is not saying that they're not the center of our world, but it's saying, like, sometimes little people are challenging and you're gonna be like, I really, mm, this is very hard for me. You are very frustrating. And that is a very normal thing to feel. And the sooner you make peace with that and give yourself five minutes to calm down, take a deep breath, walk away, you're gonna feel a lot better.

SPEAKER_01 20:56

I love that. Christina, thank you for being here today. You're very welcome. We've been talking to Christina Ryan, clinical supervisor. I'm your host, Derek Rader. Have a great day because you deserve it.